Read more about how it works here. just recently the idea occured tome to sharpen a planer blade like a knife and check out how it performs. The knife does dull faster. Can you contact me via my email address so I can send you a copy in PDF and epub. Let's compare 14c28n steel with other steels, and for this, I use four criteria; Edge Retention, Corrosion resistance, Ease of Sharpness, and Toughness and on a scale of 1-10 (10 being the highest) let's see the performance of each steel. Notice that with the same edges on the same media, the 9Cr18Mov from Real Steel performs about as well as the average Chinese D2. This is an American-made powder steel produced by Crucible and developed specifically for knives with the aid of the knife guru Chris Reeve (maker of the vaunted Sebenza, among other gems). CPM 4V There one of the best reason that he is highly regarded as a knife designer. D2 will go through a lot more rope at 58-59 hard than AEB-L will at 64 hard. Kershaw, Spyderco and Schrade are among some of the popular users of this steel.. 14C28N. Compared to the AUS10A, the D2 has a longer legacy since it's been around since 1918. Because of the material difference, the blades differ in toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. But in my experience, it has been nothing but great. This showed that XHP and ZDP-189 have significantly lower corrosion resistance than other stainless steels. Even it enhances corrosion resistance and wear resistance. you can easily buy a $500 knive made out of 14c28n, which has nothing in it besides cr and a trace of ni. These steels are best for knives that dont see impacts and are some of the most difficult to sharpen. A few steels have been added since such as MagnaCut and M398. Recommendations are welcome, If you are cutting against metal I would maybe try K390 in a Spyderco or an S110V knife if you need stainless. 14C28N VS D2 The two sheets of steel are comparable in terms of toughness and corrosion resistance. Required fields are marked *. G10 14C28N and D2 steel are not the same. Its high hardness and relatively high toughness also make it an excellent choice in cutlery. While 9Cr18MoV steel is highly corrosion resistant due to the addition of Cr, and Mo. Time and use have proven this to be quite accurate. But to learn more about these and other attributes, read our related outdoor knife buyers guide. 14c28n steel and D2 steel are both high-quality knife steels. You also reported 8.6 for 440A in that post, compared to 8.5 in this post. GiantMouse Vox/Anso ACE Iona Liner Lock Knife, Muley Freaks Erik Van Woerkom Charged With Felony Possession of Trophy Mule Deer, The Biggest Improvement to My Camp Kitchen Is a Mini Pizza Oven (But Not for Pizza), Propane Traeger, Moosejaw Coolers, Hybrid HOKAs, Adventure Chess, and More Emerging Gear, Avalanche Outside British Columbia Resort Buries 10, Kills 3 Heli-Skiers, Netflix Unveils First Trailer for Tour de France Series. 8Cr13MoV is comparable to the Japanese AUS-8 but containing slightly higher carbon content. We all have our preference, but overall, preference leans towards the pocket knife with a clip. 14C28N is offered on midprice knives and is one of the better steels on a dollar-for-dollar basis. This is a non-powder Japanese steel used primarily in Spyderco knives. I measured corrosion resistance of a slightly lower carbon 420 here: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/03/02/cpm-spy27-experiments-toughness-corrosion-resistance-and-more/. D2 knives offer higher edge retention than 14C28N knives, which is attributed to the high carbon elements and hardness of D2. Larrin, thank you for this. The biggest factor for cost of knife steel is whether it is produced with conventional ingot technology or powder metallurgy. Heat treatment refers to the heating and cooling steps employed to achieve your knifes proper balance of attributes. D2 steel is high carbon steel with no extra addition of Cr or Mo, that's why it is prone to corrosion. I personally don`t care about stainless (sic! A lot of custom makers also like S110V, including the great RJ Martin. Therefore powder metallurgy is not necessary for certain steels, or could even be slightly detrimental. Steel is a combination of iron and carbon with other elements. They differ little in composition and treatment. Some steel companies charge more than others. Privacy Policy. These steels offer a great balance of characteristics that work well, from big choppers to thin slicers. imo o lot depends on how the blade is sharpened. Wear resistance comes from hardness and carbides, hard particles formed between carbon and another element like Vanadium or Tungsten. I was thinking maybe Sleipner or A2 would be best if a PM steel was out. Its soft, with very low carbon content. 14C28N VS S30V S30V steel provides improved corrosion resistance, sharpening ease, and edge retention. Generally this is code for difficulty in abrading away steel. While some are into that type of thing, if youre familiar with a specific steel and want to compare it with another, you should definitely click on that button below. the more complex fracture toughness at least lets you make some estimates in this sence. Though technically not a stainless steel due to its composition, in use it performs exactly like one. Other factors that can be added in are corrosion resistance, hardness, and cost. It does have chromium but is not as sufficient as required to be a type of stainless steel. So the major tradeoff is in how much carbide you want in the steel for edge retention without dropping toughness too much for the intended knife and user. Its very similar chemically to RWL 34 and ATS-34. Therefore, you cannot purchase the knife for use in corrosive environments. I test corrosion resistance of steels by heat treating 1 x 1.5 inch coupons, finishing to about 400 grit, and then spraying with water. CTS-204P and CPM-20CV are nearly identical steels made by other manufacturers. Jeff I worked at a company that heat treated D2 (1.55% C) planer blades for a company that built wood working equipment for commercial shops. 440A It can withstand a lot of wear and tear. 1.4116 The studies confirmed that the primary controlling factors are hardness of the steel, volume of carbides, and hardness of the carbides. There are a few other complicating factors such as carbon in solution and plate martensite, especially in low alloy steels such as described in this article. Sandvik 14C28N steel is better than D2 steel in corrosion resistance and toughness. Also many hardwoods will dull planer blades just because theyre more dense. High Alloy Tool Steels and High Speed Steels. I have a bachelor's degree in Mechanical engineering with a specialization in material science. Micarta Spyderco announced Native 5 Salt with magnacut, but I saw test of magnacut with salt water and it grows corrosionso Salt with magnacut could be a flop. VG-1 is a non-powder steel made by Japanese specialty steelmaker Takefu. Looks like there is no reason to us it over 420HC. Continue with Recommended Cookies. Im a woodworker and Im interested in making better performing plane irons and chisels. D2 steel does not contain enough chromium to make it stainless steel. Now that is power planer blades, but the principle stands, less carbon and alloy isnt the best for wood working and Id use a steel like 26C3 (1.25% C .30%Cr) for my hand tools and temper them to around 62 hard and use the best angle for wood shaving, not the best angle for cutting rope. Here its 8. I mean the box cutter type, with the replaceable trapezoidal blades. you can easily buy a $500 knive made out of 14c28n, which has nothing in it besides cr and a trace of ni. When the blade gets messed up I just replace it. Did you change the estimate based on more testing? LC200N has similar properties to those two but with saltwater levels of corrosion resistance. Then we could say, e.g. 420HC, 420, and 5160 all offer off-the-charts toughness. It confirms what I always suspected and what anyone could have figured out by reading the technical data. In fact Id be delighted to have your experience checking my thinking! I tested its edge wear resistance but not its toughness yet. While quite soft, the metal cuts even when it seems dull because, at the microscopic level, it has a roughness that performs much like a serration. And before you start arguing on behalf of the steel you think might be perfect, let me remind you that if your knife isnt perfect for a task, youll need to get another one that is! Corrosion is not only cosmetic. My favorites of the high edge retention group are Vanadis 8 and CPM-10V. If you have a favorite steel, rock on! 14C28N vs. D2. It also tops out around 60-61 Rc like LC200N and needs relatively careful heat treating to even be that hard. Knives are one of our oldest tools, so it makes sense that they have evolved into thousands of styles since the first person chipped one out of stone. Low Carbon steels like AEB-L wont hold up to wood cutting even though it can hit 64 hard, it just doesnt have enough Carbon.. 420HC doesnt hold an edge well, but its relatively stain-resistant and tough. the problem is in the innumerable combinations of grades, grains sizes and coatings available. I havent tested Sleipner yet. The Sandvik 14C28N has a very thin and sharp blade that is perfect for slicing through things. The 25 dps sharpened knife saw almost no edge damage with 2 ft-lbs while a 15 dps edge saw a significant chip with only 0.3 ft-lbs and catastrophic chipping with 1.4 ft-lbs. Generally seen as a slight upgrade to the 440C/VG-10/ATS-34 caliber of steel, its a decent all-around steel with good corrosion resistance, decent toughness, and only modest hardness. MagnaCut Edge retention is the ability of a knife to maintain cutting ability during cutting. 14C28N is stainless steel, and its knives offer excellent rust resistance and toughness than D2 steel. The Kershaw Leek is a most popular EDC knife that design by legendary custom knife maker Ken Onion. have extremely high edge retention. Corrosion Resistance: D2 steel has a higher chromium content than 8Cr13MoV, which makes it better at resisting corrosion and wear. The brand designed it as a carbide replacement. If you want to learn more than keep reading past the ratings. Only a skilled blacksmith can make Damascus steels, so they tend to be expensive. The material increase machinability and strength. 1095. These steels have sufficient toughness to handle thinner edge geometry. Steels that are improperly heat treated have excess retained austenite which makes them extremely difficult to deburr. Nitro V vs 14C28N Last but not least, 14C28N contains comparatively more vanadium elements which makes the carbides more harder and strong, which gives 14C28N a better edge retention. It has high levels of chromium and carbon, making it extremely resistant to corrosion. On the other hand, 9cr18mov has a slightly higher molybdenum content which gives it higher hardness from quenching and helps drive carbide formation. Carpenter produces this powder steel. High wear resistance steels are more expensive to buy and to process, especially since many require powder metallurgy. If the properties of a knife meet your knife needs and it has the above characteristics, then it qualifies as a quality knife. Many steel ratings articles pay lip service to the importance of heat treatment without providing examples. Note just because a blade is made from the premium or high-end steels listed above does not automatically mean its better than the lesser steels. Rust Test includes:D2 from Bestech and WE1095 from shop8Cr13Mov from Spyderco420HC from BuckWalmart knifeY Start (Marked D2)Follow me at:Twitter: https://twi. Question. For example, Bohler M390, CTS-204P, and CPM-20CV are all nearly identical and indistinguishable in practice. Both steels are popular among knife manufacturers and both have their strengths and weaknesses. The old rule in steels used to be corrosion resistance, toughness, or hardness choose two. But SM100 (the trade name for Nitinol 60) threw that out the window when introduced to the cutlery world. D2 is a high carbon, high chromium die steel and is the highest carbon alloy tool and die steel typically used in knife making. 9Cr is the top end of the series and is quite good as good or better than AUS-8. Because of their good edge retention, these steels are quite versatile in folders and fixed blades. As wear resistance is increased the differences between conventional and powder metallurgy steels become greater. Vanax gives up some toughness and hardness vs MagnaCut for saltwater levels of corrosion resistance. S90V But SM100 is not widely available, hard to heat treat and grind, and exceptionally expensive. In fact, its not technically a steel at all, as it uses titanium and nickel. 440C steel Using 10 dps sharpening (20 degrees inclusive on the chart) leads to about 5x the edge retention of 25 dps. 14C28N vs D2: Overview 14C28N steel is a high-end stainless steel created by the Swedish company Sandvik. Maxamet is one of two current high-hardness kings, with HRc marks in the high 60s approaching 70, a hardness usually only seen in carbide steels. The maximum edge retention available in this group is not particularly high because most of the wear resistance comes from iron carbide, also called cementite, which is the softest of the different carbide types. Its hard to say. Another very tough and highly wear-resistant steel grade is the D2. The highest edge retention steel was Rex 121 which was at 70 Rc in combination with lots of high hardness vanadium carbides. Though the volume of carbonitrides in the steel is relatively high. The vivid patterns visible in Damascus steel come from the acid etching process in a ferric chloride solution. On the other hand, edge stability in terms of micro chipping and edge folding is also good. When describing the characteristics of a steel, a few common attributes are commonly talked about. HA! Steels like CPM MagnaCut, CPM M4, CPM 4V, and CPM CruWear fit in this category. A more obtuse edge angle is much more resistant to chipping than an acute edge. Maxamet and Rex 121 are so extreme in terms of wear resistance and edge retention that I rated them higher than 10 because otherwise it throws off the ratings for everything else. Uddeholm lists it as somewhat worse in toughness than A2 but somewhat better in wear resistance. And while youll find it mostly in expensive knives, quite a few approachable M390 blades exist. 1060 14C28N steel is as a result of a more corrosion resistant version of the 13C26 steel. In all of the cases above, properties are greatly controlled by carbides. Toughness is the resistance to chipping or breaking. No idea. 14C28N knives offer better toughness than D2 knives. Check out theGiantMouse Vox/Anso ACE Iona Liner Lock Knife at $99, for example. Flashlights run the gamut of price and quality. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/05/01/testing-the-edge-retention-of-48-knife-steels/, Unfortunately it all comes down to marketing on everybody involved: Industry, knifemakers, users. What about K390? Get for a complete guide about other steel; you can read 14c28n vs 8cr13mov reviews. Give it a couple of weeks, and feedback will start pouring in. Typically an increase in corrosion resistance means a reduction in potential hardness for a given steel. Which one is right for you? There is no such thing as a steel that is a 10 in both toughness and edge retention. Start comparing steels. How would n680 compare to m690? The big names in powder metallurgy are Crucible (CPM- steels), Carpenter (CTS- steels), Bohler Microclean (M390), and Uddeholm Superclean (Elmax, Vanax). document.getElementById( "ak_js" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Spyderco has their own salt spray test setup to determine the corrosion resistance and they determined that MagnaCut is sufficiently corrosion resistant for their salt series of knives. it seems like all the pieces are in place to develop an algorithm for this. We did the research to help you find the best hunting knife for your needs and budget. Here, we break down how to choose a flashlight, including best flashlight LEDs, batteries, designs, and more. 14C28N knives will handle challenging and demanding applications without chipping, cracking, or breaking. If you shop for knives based strictly on steel, you might be disappointed. Another common heat treating choice that is not even categorized as a mistake is tempering in the high temperature regime (~1000F) rather than the low temperature regime (~400F). However, Kershaw asked Sandvik to make their 13C26 steel more resistant to corrosion, and the result was 14C28N. Sorry about the misinformation. Is there a reason SG2/R2 are not included in the lineup, despite being one of the most popular ones? But then if you look at an increase of 100 mm in the CATRA test from Maxamet to Rex 121 the toughness only drops 1-2 ft-lbs. It would be interesting to try to develop a conversation between /geometry/edge retention/toughness, so we could say e.g. These steels are perfect for thin edges and high hardness. [Steel Knife Review], Best survival knife sword: 5160 steel Review, What is VG 10 pocket knife? Five years ago, S30V had a premium price. Theres also a line of green triangles a bit below that. These steels favor edge retention over all else. I know that one does not normally make knife blades of titanium, but I gather that Ti is extremely corrosion resistant, used for saltwater applications, etc. Cookie Notice AEB-L and 14C28N are the best in the high toughness group. False treatment and geometry upheld by Made in USA is like buying 8Cr from China (except late A.G) My personal experience tops with Vanadis 4E, CPM-M4, RWL-34 and the likes. These steels are the good old hard-working steels. The chart below has dotted lines which indicate the average effect of hardness for any given steel. 0.62% of Carbon: Makes knives harder and more resistant. With conventional steels this limited vanadium additions to about 4-5%, and this was greatly expanded when powder metallurgy was developed. High Speed steels are a subset that have significant additions of Mo and/or W that makes them resist softening when they are used for machining operations. Importing steel from Europe to the USA, or vice versa, generally increases the cost. CPM 154 I would also suggest adding a hardness rating to the ratings tables that currently include toughness, edge retention, and corrosion resistance ratings. See the chart below showing 52100 steel that was overaustenitized (unintentionally) by a knifemaker that sent me specimens for toughness testing. 2) you do not go into the sharpening in much detail. Im going to give the ratings first and then give more explanation about how the ratings were created. 14C28N is a type of high-performance stainless steel used in knife-making. The majority of knives target 63 Rc or below so this limitation of stainless steels does not always come into play but can be an important factor for certain knives targeting high performance and thin edges. Its very hard, tough, and corrosion-resistant. while its a very intuitive method and a simple way to e.g. The most significant cost increase comes from powder metallurgy, used to create most of the expensive knife steels. For more information, please see our One such person is Dr. Larrin Thomas, a professional metallurgist raised by a knife maker and a giant knife nerd. And given the recipe, it has a low number of carbides, the extra-hard microcrystals in steel that provide the hardness necessary for a stable and sharp edge. compare different heat treats of the same component, it lacks a theoretical foundation and its not clear how to relate it to the real world. n690 Interesting. Would be great if some manufactures changed their steels based on this information. 8670 and 5160 are good choices for large knives that need very high toughness. How long sharpen? [Complete Steel Guide], What is Vg-10 steel?- [Steel Knife Review], The Difference Between 440c steel vs d2: Compared guide, Is 8cr13mov Good Knife Steel [Complete Steel Guide], Amazon Best Sellers in Pocket Knives & Folding Knives. 1095 -> Maybe prequenched 14c28n could be a little tougher than AEB-L? Fix-It Sticks Compact Ratcheting Multi-Tool Review, Toughness, Wear Resistance, Corrosion Resistance. Im not hating on 80crv2 , Ive used it. Its probably in between Vanadis 8 and 10V. Hi Larrin Youve occasionally mentioned cryo treatment in your posts, including here with LC200N. I forgot, I got the higher carbon steels will have higher edge retention from this website. Steels patina in the acid at varying rates which allows for one steel to etch darker than the other and show that famous patterned contrast. It can build a knife that sustains a sharp cutting edge for long periods and is sufficiently wear-resistant. They tend to be relatively expensive and difficult to sharpen, as they have high wear resistance. You can see that 64 Rc AEB-L has both lower toughness and edge retention than 61 Rc MagnaCut, so I feel that in general you get a better sense of where the steels fit with a single point. as you mentioned catra indicates the edge angle as being by far the most important variable. We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. On the other hand, these types of steel provide high wear resistance and toughness. It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. Spyderco and Cold Steel have used it, though Cold Steel recently switched to S35VN due to availability concerns. But which? I was recommended the Rat 1 in D2 and I also found that I really like the design of the Ruike p135 and p128. And below shows a chart of carbide hardness, the equation we created to predict edge retention based on edge angle, hardness, and carbide volumes, and then the chart showing the good correlation: TCC (mm) = -157 + 15.8*Hardness (Rc) 17.8*EdgeAngle() + 11.2*CrC(%) + 14.6*CrVC(%) + 26.2*MC(%) + 9.5*M6C(%) + 20.9*MN(%) + 19.4*CrN(%). We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. Between the assisted open, weird looking texture designs, and the stainless steel handle, the Cannonball has a lot of features I don't normally like, but even I have to admit it's a good design for the price. Do honing steels as used on kitchen knives actually do anything useful? AEB-L is a non-powder steel produced by Swedish steelmaker Uddeholm. Tanto Vg10 and cpms45vn same toughness at same hardness ? Wusthof Classic Ikon 8-Inch Cooks Knife Review, Victorinox Fibrox Straight Edge Chefs Knife Review, What is Cts bd1 steel? W-2 Knife Steel Benefiting from 0.2 percent vanadium content, W-2 holds an edge well and is reasonably tough. Like 154CM, its a good compromise between all three steel attributes. The bump in hardness comes from precipitation of fine carbides in the steel, which include chromium carbides. Also Mo additions improve corrosion resistance for a given amount of chromium. Its hard enough, tough enough, and stain-resistant enough. Find your right answers here! It was your original article on ratings that brought me to knifesteel nerds so its great to see your results put back into a form that will no doubt be distributed \ plagiarized widely, hopefully leading to more rational thought and better understanding by the knife consuming public (not that the misleading marketing will go away). However, many kinds of wood are REALLY tough and very hard on blades. Why wouldnt it be possible to make a damascus steel out of (say) AEB-L and s90V, or wouldnt that gain the best of both? AEB-L is rarely found on production knives but can be found on custom knives easily. then you have zirconia and diamond coated blades. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. This was described in this article on Vanax heat treating. Are you looking for 14c28n steel with other steel? The only thing putting me off immediately buying the p135 is the 14c28n steel. A European powder-metal steel used in higher-end knives, Elmax has an advanced formula, and the result is a very good all-around steel, a generation ahead of formulations like 154CM.
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